Would God Need a Creator?

Starting the video:

DarkMatter2525 : God's God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODetOE6cbbc

"God" - i e the "Christian God" as an atheist imagines that we imagine God, is gloating over an atheist (before sending him to Hell), and the "angel Geoffrey" is watching.

"God" asked the atheist (who silently stood listening politely), in a lowd and booming voice if he

"was so daft he didn't think there had to be an explanation for his existence and intelligence"?

"Geoffrey":

"well, God, you exist, and you must be very intelligent."

"God":

"... of course, I'm God"

"Geoffrey":

"well, what's the explanation for your existence and intelligence?"

"God":

"Uh, I just am, OK?"

"Geoffrey":

"No, not OK. If human minds are so intelligent that they demand a creator as explanation for their existence, how much more intelligent must their creator's mind be? So intelligent that it too demands an explanation for its existence, even more so."

Distinction: man's intelligence is too great to be a product of mere chance. It is not too intelligent to "just be" i e from all eternity. It is in fact too little intelligent to "just be" from all eternity.

But even apart from that, it is intelligent enough to figure out, usually that it is not itself from all eternity. If it was the eternal intelligence that was man's intelligence, how come man can be in error? If man is never in error, how come men contradict each other? Can truth contradict itself, or can the eternal intelligence contradict itself? No. If man's intellect is there, and is an intellect (which we have experience it is), it cannot be a chancy byproduct of biology or physics. It must have some relation to an eternal intellect. But it cannot be that eternal intellect. And of course it cannot be the origin of the eternal intellect. So it must be the eternal intellect that is origin of man's intellect. For instance, by creating it.

"God":

"I am eternal, that's the explanation."

"Geoffrey":

"That means it is possible for an intelligent mind to exist without a creator. And therefore this atheist's disbelief that his mind was intelligently designed is perfectly reasonable. Because you are standing here, God, supposedly the most intelligent mind of all time, and you were not intelligently designed.

"In fact the atheist *who knows that* [slip for "claims"?] his mind is just the product of evolution is far more consistent, than your 'I'm just eternal' as if eternity made you exempt from the logic that you implied should be so obvious."

Eternity as of one man's intellect would also dispense him from needing a creator. Maybe not from needing a God, but from needing a creator who initiated his and especially his mind's existence.

"Geoffrey":

"in fact the only inconsistency is you, accoridng to your logic you must be created."

"God":

[A word I do not think God would use, meant as impolite and selfassured disagreement]

"Geoffrey":

"How do you know you weren't?"

"God":

"Because [...] I know all."

"Geoffrey":

"You can't know that."

"God":

"Why [...] not?"

"Geoffrey":

"Because there could be something you don't know and you don't know that. And you'd never be able to say there isn't, because you wouldn't know it if there were."

"God":

[giving no answer except an angry punishment]

An atheist video maker gives back to God himself the argument that atheists are getting when pretending to know there are no miracles, ghosts, souls, gods, fairies, dinosaurs contemporary with men ... and a few more.

If God is not omniscient, He is not God. He needs - as the video's title implies, and which we might get to - a God above himself.

If God is however omniscient, it is not a conclusion. It is the experience of knowing Himself perfectly (being in Three Persons might be helpful in that context, as they know each other) and knowing He was from eternity and knowing He started time with Creation Himself.

But the atheist's claim to what would amount to omniscience in above contexts is not experience but just a conclusion about something going on outside the frames of his own existance. And he knows there is such a thing, since he is all the time receiving surprises from the outside. As is every man. As God would have had too if he had been given a class seven universe. One can differentiate between owning from eternity and being given something. And we know we have been given something. God knows He has owned both Himself and His creatures from all eternity./HGL